Discussion:
Latino Hispanic Male intentionally Runs over American with his Car in Texas
(too old to reply)
gringogirl
2007-01-03 02:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 Posted: 06:17 PM


Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver

Supported by

Neighbors say victim and driver were arguing

MCALLEN - Officers say a driver purposely ran over a McAllen man.
They're now searching for the driver.

It happened in the 2900 block of Daytona Avenue. Neighbors tell us the
driver and victim got into a shouting match.

Detectives say the driver floored the gas pedal and hit the man.
Markings on the street show exactly where the victim was hit.

Police say the man is still in the hospital. They're now searching for
the car involved in the accident. It's described as a maroon Mazda. It
has a rear spoiler with extensive damage to the driver's side.

Witnesses say the driver was a Hispanic man in his early twenties with
a military-style haircut.

Police ask anyone with information about the hit and run to call
McAllen Crimestoppers at 687-TIPS.
Rudy Canoza
2007-01-03 02:04:42 UTC
Permalink
gringaslut, bitter angry low-achiever pissed off at
immigrants who work harder and LIVE BETTER than she,
Post by gringogirl
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 Posted: 06:17 PM
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Police do that, gringaslut.

You filthy, skanky, trailer-park cunt.
Dude
2007-01-03 06:34:49 UTC
Permalink
gringaslut, bitter angry low-achiever pissed off at immigrants who work
Post by gringogirl
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 Posted: 06:17 PM
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Police do that, gringaslut.
You filthy, skanky, trailer-park cunt.
Gee, what did she do wrong? Not pander to the Mexican filth poisoning
our country? Immigrants work hard at bankrupting the USA and destroying
our values and prosperity.
paul
2007-01-04 04:08:15 UTC
Permalink
gringaslut, bitter angry low-achiever pissed off at immigrants who work
Post by gringogirl
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 Posted: 06:17 PM
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Police do that, gringaslut.
You filthy, skanky, trailer-park cunt.
Gee, what did she do wrong? Not pander to the Mexican filth poisoning our
country? Immigrants work hard at bankrupting the USA and destroying our
values and prosperity.
and racist garbage like you just fuels her and the open border crowds cause.
we HAVE to have a secure border, but if it was up to me, your sorry ass
would be on the other side of the border when it was closed. you racist
pieces of shit disgust me and every decent American.

back under your rock, you racist bigot
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 04:54:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
and racist garbage like you just fuels her and the open border crowds cause.
we HAVE to have a secure border, but if it was up to me, your sorry ass
would be on the other side of the border when it was closed. you racist
pieces of shit disgust me and every decent American.
I like how you START by calling the border-bigot a bigot, but
then you turn right around and support his bigotry.

You both want the same thing - they're just more honest about
they're feelings.
paul
2007-01-04 07:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
and racist garbage like you just fuels her and the open border crowds
cause. we HAVE to have a secure border, but if it was up to me, your
sorry ass would be on the other side of the border when it was closed.
you racist pieces of shit disgust me and every decent American.
I like how you START by calling the border-bigot a bigot, but then you
turn right around and support his bigotry.
You both want the same thing - they're just more honest about they're
feelings.
unlike you, who pretends to be an open minded kind hearted liberal, until
you are pushed a little. then you turn into a hateful, racist, piece of
human garbage, not fit to... well, i think you get the idea.

paul
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 09:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
unlike you, who pretends to be an open minded kind hearted liberal, until
you are pushed a little. then you turn into a hateful, racist, piece of
It's that very even-tempered attitude of y'all border-bigots
that really gives you your credibility.
paul
2007-01-04 12:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
unlike you, who pretends to be an open minded kind hearted liberal, until
you are pushed a little. then you turn into a hateful, racist, piece of
It's that very even-tempered attitude of y'all border-bigots that really
gives you your credibility.
as opposed to your even tempered thought out act of calling Secretary Rice a
"house nigger"? you haven't had any credibility for a long long time,
sanders.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 11:44:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
It's that very even-tempered attitude of y'all border-bigots that really
gives you your credibility.
as opposed to your even tempered thought out act of calling Secretary Rice a
"house nigger"? you haven't had any credibility for a long long time,
It's common for garbage like you to try to justify your bigotry
by saying "everybody does it". It's not the REAL reason for
your bigotry. It's just something you say to make yourself feel
better about your bigotry.

That's why most of the rest of America just laughs you anonymous
border bigots off.
paul
2007-01-04 13:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
It's that very even-tempered attitude of y'all border-bigots that really
gives you your credibility.
as opposed to your even tempered thought out act of calling Secretary
Rice a "house nigger"? you haven't had any credibility for a long long
time,
It's common for garbage like you to try to justify your bigotry by saying
"everybody does it". It's not the REAL reason for your bigotry. It's
just something you say to make yourself feel better about your bigotry.
That's why most of the rest of America just laughs you anonymous border
bigots off.
everybody does NOT do it. only low life worthless sorry garbage participates
in racism. you are right that it is common for racists to try to justify
their racism by accusing everyone else of being biggoted.

bye!
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 13:52:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
everybody does NOT do it. only low life worthless sorry garbage participates
in racism. you are right that it is common for racists to try to justify
their racism by accusing everyone else of being biggoted.
Say.
Don't emote.
Say.

What you typed was just weird.
paul
2007-01-04 14:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
everybody does NOT do it. only low life worthless sorry garbage
participates in racism. you are right that it is common for racists to
try to justify their racism by accusing everyone else of being biggoted.
Say.
Don't emote.
Say.
What you typed was just weird.
you are a racist. you accuse me of racism to cover your own disgusting
bigotry. only worthless sorry pieces of human garbage like you do crap like
that.

my heritage includes a healthy dose of hispanic ancestry. my grandaughters
fathers father came to this country from Mexico... legally. 48% of hispanics
voted for prop 200 AND the 4 more recent anti-illegal immigration issues
that passed here in Arizona. your cries of racism fall on deaf ears. you are
a loser without a clue. get a life!

plain enough for you now? i wouldn't want you to be confused, too.

paul
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 15:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
you are a racist. you accuse me of racism to cover your own disgusting
bigotry. only worthless sorry pieces of human garbage like you do crap like
that.
And that's why you hate the Guest Workers so much?
Post by paul
my heritage includes a healthy dose of hispanic ancestry. my grandaughters
fathers father came to this country from Mexico... legally. 48% of hispanics
So you think because some ancestor of yours was a Mexican, you
aren't a bigot?

That does clear something up, though. Now I better understand
why you are so irrationally, rabidly anti-Mexican - and why you
get so upset about the term "House Nigger". You're the Mexican
equivalent.

You would deny others the right to pursue what was handed to you
at birth. That makes you a very typical, slave-state, bigot.

I just thank GOD that You People are an impotent minority.
paul
2007-01-04 15:45:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
you are a racist. you accuse me of racism to cover your own disgusting
bigotry. only worthless sorry pieces of human garbage like you do crap
like that.
And that's why you hate the Guest Workers so much?
i have no problem with guest workers. i am willing to discuss expanding the
program. i am unwilling to continue the 'wink and nod' program that results
in people dying in the desert, and felons and al-queda and God only knows
(because we don't bother to keep track) who else crossing unchecked into our
country.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
my heritage includes a healthy dose of hispanic ancestry. my
grandaughters fathers father came to this country from Mexico... legally.
48% of hispanics
So you think because some ancestor of yours was a Mexican, you aren't a
bigot?
i know i'm not a bigot. not because of my ancestry, but because i was raised
to respect every individual who demonstrate themselves to be worthy of
respect. i do not tolerate racism and bigotry in myself nor others. period.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
That does clear something up, though. Now I better understand why you are
so irrationally, rabidly anti-Mexican - and why you get so upset about the
term "House Nigger". You're the Mexican equivalent.
lol. whatever! that term is only used by racist scum. the fact that you
think there are EVER occasions where it is appropriate shows you for what
you are.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
You would deny others the right to pursue what was handed to you at birth.
That makes you a very typical, slave-state, bigot.
i deny nobody anything. i just demand that it be done according to the same
rules that apply to you and me.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
I just thank GOD that You People are an impotent minority.
lol! our borders will be secured, or our country will pay the price. your
party (dems) will get the message on their own, or the voters will give them
the message next election.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 16:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
i have no problem with guest workers. i am willing to discuss expanding the
program. i am unwilling to continue the 'wink and nod' program that results
in people dying in the desert, and felons and al-queda and God only knows
(because we don't bother to keep track) who else crossing unchecked into our
country.
And we come full-circle... again.
You always *start* by saying you support a guest worker program.
But then you never say anything further about it.

Everything after that is just about how much you hate and fear
Mexicans... or just a paragraph or two of cursing about how much
you hate this person or that.

I know that you try (Oh, lord how you try) to eek it a
politically correct term here and there, but it's not PC when
you drown it out in your tantrums.

So you can stamp your little feet, and you can shake your little
curls, but we the people are still not going to militarize the
border for you. Not while you're behaving this way.
paul
2007-01-04 16:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
i have no problem with guest workers. i am willing to discuss expanding
the program. i am unwilling to continue the 'wink and nod' program that
results in people dying in the desert, and felons and al-queda and God
only knows (because we don't bother to keep track) who else crossing
unchecked into our country.
And we come full-circle... again.
You always *start* by saying you support a guest worker program.
But then you never say anything further about it.
things have changed since the 80's. while that amnesty plan was in the
works, they said they intended to fix the whole system. they got the
amnesty, and nothing else changed. fool me once, shame on you. fool me
twice, shame on me. as soon as the border is closed, i will be willing to
discuss any reasonable proposal. until the border is closed, NOTHING else is
open for discussion. fool me once...
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Everything after that is just about how much you hate and fear Mexicans...
or just a paragraph or two of cursing about how much you hate this person
or that.
aside from you and sam, who have i even suggested that i hate? you will be
unable to find one example of me expressing hatred for Mexicans. nice try,
but you lose again.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
I know that you try (Oh, lord how you try) to eek it a politically correct
term here and there, but it's not PC when you drown it out in your
tantrums.
i don't give a damn about PC. i care about doing things the right way. i
know that idea is completely foriegn to you, but thats your problem, not
mine.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
So you can stamp your little feet, and you can shake your little curls,
but we the people are still not going to militarize the border for you.
Not while you're behaving this way.
lol, whatever. i will accept whatever "we the people" decide to do. will
you?
ps. i don't want to militarize the border. i just want to close it to
illegal crossing.
nice try again, but still no cigar.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 17:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
And we come full-circle... again.
You always *start* by saying you support a guest worker program.
But then you never say anything further about it.
things have changed since the 80's. while that amnesty plan was in the
works, they said they intended to fix the whole system. they got the
amnesty, and nothing else changed. fool me once, shame on you. fool me
Way to contradict yourself... again.
Dude
2007-01-04 18:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
everybody does NOT do it. only low life worthless sorry garbage
participates in racism. you are right that it is common for racists to
try to justify their racism by accusing everyone else of being biggoted.
Say.
Don't emote.
Say.
What you typed was just weird.
Sanders, you are the queen of weird. A Muslim dung collector using a
Jewish name.
matador
2007-01-04 14:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by paul
It's that very even-tempered attitude of y'all border-bigots that really
gives you your credibility.
as opposed to your even tempered thought out act of calling Secretary
Rice a "house nigger"? you haven't had any credibility for a long long
time,
It's common for garbage like you to try to justify your bigotry by saying
"everybody does it". It's not the REAL reason for your bigotry. It's
just something you say to make yourself feel better about your bigotry.
That's why most of the rest of America just laughs you anonymous border
bigots off.
everybody does NOT do it. only low life worthless sorry garbage participates
in racism. you are right that it is common for racists to try to justify
their racism by accusing everyone else of being biggoted.
bye!
Well now, see what you're left with, enjoy the froup.
Dude
2007-01-04 18:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
gringaslut, bitter angry low-achiever pissed off at immigrants who work
Post by gringogirl
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 Posted: 06:17 PM
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Police do that, gringaslut.
You filthy, skanky, trailer-park cunt.
Gee, what did she do wrong? Not pander to the Mexican filth poisoning our
country? Immigrants work hard at bankrupting the USA and destroying our
values and prosperity.
and racist garbage like you just fuels her and the open border crowds cause.
we HAVE to have a secure border, but if it was up to me, your sorry ass
would be on the other side of the border when it was closed. you racist
pieces of shit disgust me and every decent American.
back under your rock, you racist bigot
Not embracing illegal aliens, their criminal ways, their diseases, their
ignorance, their lack of culture, and destructive ways does not make a
person a racist or bigot. If you like the Mexican way of life, go to Mexico.
c***@yahoo.com
2007-01-03 02:09:16 UTC
Permalink
"Latino Hispanic"??


Why can't you just say "Mexican"?

Why are you guys so cowardly
in saying it?

Talk about P.C. !
j***@.
2007-01-03 02:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
"Latino Hispanic"??
Why can't you just say "Mexican"?
Why are you guys so cowardly
in saying it?
Talk about P.C. !
He is a nasty stinking Mexican. Are you happy now?
c***@yahoo.com
2007-01-03 02:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@.
He is a nasty stinking Mexican. Are you happy now?
GOOD!

Keep that up!
gringogirl
2007-01-03 03:09:49 UTC
Permalink
I really have to laugh at you Rudy- do you think that using such ugly
words against me will hurt me? because when people see what you write
they develop a bad opinion of latino males and those who are for open
borders.
your words bounce off of me and hit you right in the face
Rudy Canoza
2007-01-03 03:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringogirl
I really have to laugh at you Rudy-
You're not laughing, gringaslut. You're furious. I've
shined the harsh light of reality on you. You're an
unaccomplished, badly educated, down-market skank who
is bitter and resentful at Latinos who are your betters
in every sense: harder working, more accepting of
personal responsibility, and much more.

You're a bigot, gringaslut. You hate Latinos. Their
immigration status means nothing to you. You hate all
of them, legally immigrated or not. And it's largely
because they repeatedly show you to be a zero.
b***@yahoo.com
2007-01-03 03:38:08 UTC
Permalink
I hate all latinos. They are all trash.
Rudy Canoza
2007-01-03 03:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
I hate all latinos. They are all trash.
Fuck yourself sideways up the ass with a broken bottle.
You fucking bit of trash.
Conway
2007-01-03 05:10:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
I hate all latinos. They are all trash.
Fuck yourself sideways up the ass with a broken bottle. You fucking bit
of trash.
ditto
b***@yahoo.com
2007-01-03 05:39:23 UTC
Permalink
No, fuck yourself. Hey beaner... did you spray any graffiti this
morning? Did you hang out with your gang? Did your latino wife have
her 9th baby yet... another baby you garbage can't afford and thus you
must depend on Americans to give you food stamps and welfare?
paul
2007-01-04 04:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
No, fuck yourself. Hey beaner... did you spray any graffiti this
morning? Did you hang out with your gang? Did your latino wife have
her 9th baby yet... another baby you garbage can't afford and thus you
must depend on Americans to give you food stamps and welfare?
pieces of shit like you are a blight on society. glad that you have found a
few disgusting friends here. i've noticed that your type get real brave, in
groups of 3 or more... sorry, PACKS of 3 or more.

you are the definition of vile! the whole pack of you!
Dude
2007-01-03 06:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
I hate all latinos. They are all trash.
Fuck yourself sideways up the ass with a broken bottle. You fucking bit
of trash.
Mexicans are proof that Indians fucked monkeys.
gringogirl
2007-01-03 07:04:11 UTC
Permalink
no Rudy _ I am not furious - I think you are though- You are'nt
important enough. Illegal immigration is something to be angry about-
but the handful of ugly words you use over and over again are nothing.
paul
2007-01-04 04:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringogirl
no Rudy _ I am not furious - I think you are though- You are'nt
important enough. Illegal immigration is something to be angry about-
but the handful of ugly words you use over and over again are nothing.
I am furious. Rudy is just amused. you see, every time you spew your vile
racist vomit as you have here again today, you boost his cause of an open
border, and unchecked immigration. your type is pure gold for their cause.
MOST of us who work to secure our border are NOT racist scum like you.

you disgust me. you are vile in the extreme.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 05:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
I am furious. Rudy is just amused. you see, every time you spew your vile
racist vomit as you have here again today, you boost his cause of an open
border, and unchecked immigration. your type is pure gold for their cause.
MOST of us who work to secure our border are NOT racist scum like you.
you disgust me. you are vile in the extreme.
She's not extreme.
She's just a reflection of you.
You both have the same exact message - fear and hatred of Mexicans.
paul
2007-01-04 07:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
I am furious. Rudy is just amused. you see, every time you spew your vile
racist vomit as you have here again today, you boost his cause of an open
border, and unchecked immigration. your type is pure gold for their
cause. MOST of us who work to secure our border are NOT racist scum like
you.
you disgust me. you are vile in the extreme.
She's not extreme.
She's just a reflection of you.
You both have the same exact message - fear and hatred of Mexicans.
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism sucks,
whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own paternal
racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans or columbians or
new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our open border to bring
something into the country that will kill Americans, of ALL ancestory. i
also fear that people are dying in great numbers trying to make it here
across an unforgiving desert. i fear hard hearted liberal racist pieces of
shit like you, for the damage you do to our country.

you clearly didn't have a clue with your "fear and hatred of Mexicans"
comment, so i'll let that slip down the sewer where it belongs. you are a
truly sad case, sanders, but i don't even hate you. you merely disgust me.

paul
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 09:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism sucks,
whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own paternal
racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans or columbians or
new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our open border to bring
blah, blah, blah.
When will you bigots come up with something new to say?
paul
2007-01-04 12:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism
sucks, whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own
paternal racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans or
columbians or new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our open
border to bring
blah, blah, blah.
When will you bigots come up with something new to say?
lol, you don't like what is said, so you belittle it and move on as if it
was never said. i don't know why i bothered to talk to you as if you were a
real thinking feeling human being!

bye!
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 12:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
lol, you don't like what is said, so you belittle it and move on as if it
was never said. i don't know why i bothered to talk to you as if you were a
real thinking feeling human being!
It's common for border-bigots such as yourself to denounce your
fellow humans as not being human.

It's just another sympton of your sociopathy - and a big part of
why nobody is willing to support you.

We've got all kinds of bigots in this country - anti-jew,
anti-muslim, anti-blind... all kinds. But even among your
fellow bigots, you anti-Mexican types have got to be the
dumbest, and most easily manipulated.
matador
2007-01-04 14:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism
sucks, whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own
paternal racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans or
columbians or new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our open
border to bring
blah, blah, blah.
When will you bigots come up with something new to say?
lol, you don't like what is said, so you belittle it and move on as if it
was never said. i don't know why i bothered to talk to you as if you were a
real thinking feeling human being!
bye!
You're back on track.
paul
2007-01-04 15:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by matador
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism
sucks, whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own
paternal racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans or
columbians or new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our open
border to bring
blah, blah, blah.
When will you bigots come up with something new to say?
lol, you don't like what is said, so you belittle it and move on as if it
was never said. i don't know why i bothered to talk to you as if you were
a real thinking feeling human being!
bye!
You're back on track.
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you are an
arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!

paul
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 15:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you are an
arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you
don't have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time
doing.

You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
paul
2007-01-04 15:52:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you are
an arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
go to hell! saying it over and over won't make it so, no matter how much you
wish to cover your own inadequacies.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-04 16:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on
other people.

If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should
learn some way of giving other people less control over you.
Because the way you're going - that's just not healthy.
Post by paul
You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
go to hell! saying it over and over won't make it so, no matter how much you
wish to cover your own inadequacies.
While asking us to fund militarizing your border for you, that's
a lousy way of saying please.

Perhaps when you Slave State border-bigots learn to behave
yourselves, we'll give you some of the stuff you ask for... when
you learn to behave yourself.
paul
2007-01-04 16:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on other
people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should learn some
way of giving other people less control over you. Because the way you're
going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
samovar
2007-01-06 06:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by paul
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on other
people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should learn some
way of giving other people less control over you. Because the way you're
going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...

The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move in to
feed on the kill.

You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.

If we give them blood in the water they become like sharks, willing even
to savage their own or anything that moves.

No charge for these lessons my friend.
paul
2007-01-06 18:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by paul
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on other
people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should learn
some way of giving other people less control over you. Because the way
you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move in to
feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need. racists don't
count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in society and i don't
feel that i have to give them any respect. other than that, i hope to reduce
(somewhat) that 'need'
Post by samovar
If we give them blood in the water they become like sharks, willing even
to savage their own or anything that moves.
No charge for these lessons my friend.
i always listen to advice from a friend. i don't always take it though.

take care,
paul
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-06 19:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by paul
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on other
people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should learn
some way of giving other people less control over you. Because the way
you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move in to
feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need. racists don't
count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in society and i don't
feel that i have to give them any respect. other than that, i hope to reduce
(somewhat) that 'need'
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them, and finish implimenting
systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-06 19:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them, and finish implimenting
systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
We don't have that much money.
Nobody does.

Back in the 80's, I worked at the Defense Information School.
We were studying SDI (missile shield). We commissioned MIT,
Berkeley and a few others to estimate time and cost constraints.

What we discovered was that such paranoid, isolationist programs
would bankrupt a nation.

We leaked the program to the soviets, and they bankrupted
themselves trying to create this super-shield.

That's how we won the cold war - not by locking down our own
border, but by tricking other nations into thinking they could
lock down theirs.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-06 22:29:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them, and finish
implimenting systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
We don't have that much money.
Nobody does.
Back in the 80's, I worked at the Defense Information School.
We were studying SDI (missile shield). We commissioned MIT, Berkeley
and a few others to estimate time and cost constraints.
What we discovered was that such paranoid, isolationist programs would
bankrupt a nation.
We leaked the program to the soviets, and they bankrupted themselves
trying to create this super-shield.
That's how we won the cold war - not by locking down our own border, but
by tricking other nations into thinking they could lock down theirs.
Well, let's see, times have changed plenty since anyone was first
looking into SDI. I remember it well. As it turns out, the technology of
the time would have cost tens of billions and had a physical facility --
just for computers to track visa arrivals and departures -- occupying
the area of four city blocks. Now such computational operations, of
comparable scale and scope, can be done on the average desktop computer
for about $1500 hardware costs.

There are sensors which are a variation on the inexpensive 802.11#
wireless internet technology which cost about $60.00 off the shelf which
can be mated to about $30.00 of other hardware and which can detect
motion at or near ground level over the surrounding half mile. Their
basis of operation as a sensor is directly related to their ability to
form internet networks. Outside of software costs and
deployment/maintenance costs, for a bit over $100 per square mile you
can massively increase situational awareness for border defending
agencies. For 2000 miles of border, that's rather less than five million
dollars to put effective surface sensing along the whole border. And
let's not go into the multitude of earth observation satellites, almost
none of which existed when the universities were researching the costs
of effective SDI.

What was past, is not necessarily present.

Nice attempt to use ancient history as part of a Fear Uncertainty and
Doubt argument.

The USA is not isolationist. Legal immigrants and tourist visa holders
and transborder crossings of legitimate businesspeople outnumber illegal
border crossings and longterm visa-overstays by about 65-millions to 1
millions on an annual basis. However, those who enter and depart legally
have a certain amount of background checking done, not to mention
entering through Ports of Inspection and undergoing Customs inspections
which include at least cursory checks for explosives, arms, ammunition,
or other contraband.

We can secure out borders and ports and still have the same amount of
global and international trade which we now have.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 02:25:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
The USA is not isolationist.
... and then you go on to give a bunch of reasons why you think
we should militarize the border.

I say - fine. Come up with a plan, find a way to fund it, find
the manpower to staff it - and then you'll get what you want.

But you sociopaths can't do that.
You have no leader, and he presents no plan.
You have no funding.
Your volunteers are all nucking futs.

How do you propose overcoming those four obstacles?
Who will champion your plan?
How will you draft your plan?
How much more taxes are you willing to surrender?
How will you filter out all the White Supremists?

Overcome those four small obstacles - and you can militarize the
border!
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 16:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
The USA is not isolationist.
... and then you go on to give a bunch of reasons why you think we
should militarize the border.
Actually, no I didn't.

<snips irrelevancies>
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Michael R. McAfee
2007-01-06 22:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them, and finish
implimenting systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
We don't have that much money.
Nobody does.
Back in the 80's, I worked at the Defense Information School.
We were studying SDI (missile shield). We commissioned MIT, Berkeley
and a few others to estimate time and cost constraints.
What we discovered was that such paranoid, isolationist programs would
bankrupt a nation.
We leaked the program to the soviets, and they bankrupted themselves
trying to create this super-shield.
That's how we won the cold war - not by locking down our own border, but
by tricking other nations into thinking they could lock down theirs.
You learn something everyday! Here I thought that it was Ronald RayGun
and or the Pope that won the "Cold War" and it was you all along! How
about that!
--
*******************
Michael R. McAfee
Mesa, AZ
*******************
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 02:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Sanders Kaufman
We leaked the program to the soviets, and they bankrupted themselves
trying to create this super-shield.
That's how we won the cold war - not by locking down our own border,
but by tricking other nations into thinking they could lock down theirs.
You learn something everyday! Here I thought that it was Ronald RayGun
and or the Pope that won the "Cold War" and it was you all along! How
about that!
Raygun didn't win it alone.
What do you think he was - the Messiah?
A lot of us were involved.
paul
2007-01-06 21:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by paul
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you
don't have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time
doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on other
people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should learn
some way of giving other people less control over you. Because the way
you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move in to
feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need. racists
don't count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in society and i
don't feel that i have to give them any respect. other than that, i hope
to reduce (somewhat) that 'need'
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them, and finish implimenting
systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
i believe in doing whatever it takes to secure our borders. i also believe
absolutely in tracking down visa violaters.
Post by T Jr Hardman
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Michael R. McAfee
2007-01-06 22:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by paul
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you
don't have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time
doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate
the hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring
out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on
other people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should
learn some way of giving other people less control over you.
Because the way you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move in
to feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need. racists
don't count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in society
and i don't feel that i have to give them any respect. other than
that, i hope to reduce (somewhat) that 'need'
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them,
That's impossible. Just ask the East Germans, and they were trying to
keep people IN!

Tell me, Hardman. A question that paul is reluctant to answer (for good
reason). Do you propose that we shoot to kill on sight those that we
suspect are crossing our borders illegally? I suspect that you favor a
(multi billion dollar - perhaps even trillions of dollars) fence along
at least our border with Mexico. Do you also think that that fence ought
to be constructed with guard towers equipped with machine-guns and army
personnel with orders to shoot first and sort the bodies later? How
about mines (you know, those devises that children in Afghanistan are so
fond of playing with). Think the border ought to be mined?. How about
the CEOs of the corporations that hire illegal aliens? Do you think that
we ought to fine them ... oh, I don't know... maybe $50.00 per alien
that they employ illegally? Thought so.
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing
systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
--
*******************
Michael R. McAfee
Mesa, AZ
*******************
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 00:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by paul
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you
don't have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time
doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate
the hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring
out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on
other people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should
learn some way of giving other people less control over you.
Because the way you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move
in to feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need.
racists don't count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in
society and i don't feel that i have to give them any respect. other
than that, i hope to reduce (somewhat) that 'need'
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them,
That's impossible. Just ask the East Germans, and they were trying to
keep people IN!
Tell me, Hardman. A question that paul is reluctant to answer (for good
reason). Do you propose that we shoot to kill on sight those that we
suspect are crossing our borders illegally? I suspect that you favor a
(multi billion dollar - perhaps even trillions of dollars) fence along
at least our border with Mexico. Do you also think that that fence ought
to be constructed with guard towers equipped with machine-guns and army
personnel with orders to shoot first and sort the bodies later? How
about mines (you know, those devises that children in Afghanistan are so
fond of playing with). Think the border ought to be mined?. How about
the CEOs of the corporations that hire illegal aliens? Do you think that
we ought to fine them ... oh, I don't know... maybe $50.00 per alien
that they employ illegally? Thought so.
It's generally considered poor rhetorical form to put words in someone's
mouth.

In general, the active defenses at the border should be suficient to be
effective in the vast majority of cases, but not on an overkill basis. I
favor a defense-in-depth strategy which has active defenses against
active threats. For example, in places where vehicular crossings are a
major problem, vehicle barriers would be an appropriate response.
Parking a tank over the next hill and blowing up vehicles crossing the
border would be an inappropriate response. However, if a vehicle finds
its way blocked by a vehicle barrier and discharges personnel who
attempt to destroy the barrier, those people should be apprehended if
possible with deadly force authorized for responding personnel.

Whatever defenses are set at the border, a variety of fallback
strategies should back up the border defenses. Pedestrian traffic should
be detected and tracked by a variety of sensors. Motorized traffic
should be monitored as well, especially in the very common cases where
we see pedestrian groups crossing the border and moving to pre-arranged
rendezvous with transport. A variety of responses can be used to track
the vehicle to the destination, as one of the major goals here is to
discover and decapitate the criminal organizations profiteering off of
trafficking in human cargo.

We need to engineer out some loopholes in current laws, which already
provide for very significant fines up to $100,000 for knowingly hiring
illegal aliens. Convictions are at present rather difficult to obtain
but we have ways to block up the current very popular loopholes.

As the "jobs magnet" is turned down or turned off, less and less people
will come illegally to the US in search of unscrupulous employers
willing to hire them.
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
Nobody seems to disagree with that one.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Michael R. McAfee
2007-01-08 16:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by paul
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how
you don't have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend
time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate
the hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring
out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on
other people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should
learn some way of giving other people less control over you.
Because the way you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move
in to feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need.
racists don't count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in
society and i don't feel that i have to give them any respect. other
than that, i hope to reduce (somewhat) that 'need'
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them,
That's impossible. Just ask the East Germans, and they were trying to
keep people IN!
Tell me, Hardman. A question that paul is reluctant to answer (for
good reason). Do you propose that we shoot to kill on sight those that
we suspect are crossing our borders illegally? I suspect that you
favor a (multi billion dollar - perhaps even trillions of dollars)
fence along at least our border with Mexico. Do you also think that
that fence ought to be constructed with guard towers equipped with
machine-guns and army personnel with orders to shoot first and sort
the bodies later? How about mines (you know, those devises that
children in Afghanistan are so fond of playing with). Think the border
ought to be mined?. How about the CEOs of the corporations that hire
illegal aliens? Do you think that we ought to fine them ... oh, I
don't know... maybe $50.00 per alien that they employ illegally?
Thought so.
It's generally considered poor rhetorical form to put words in someone's
mouth.
Yes, I know. That's why I almost never use that tactic. It is, however,
useful to use pointed questions to illustrate an opponents fallacies.
Post by T Jr Hardman
In general, the active defenses at the border should be suficient to be
effective in the vast majority of cases, but not on an overkill basis.
"Total operational control". I believe that is the standard that you
seek so far as the border is concerned. Such a level of control is
impossible. Even when "overkill" tactics are employed.
Post by T Jr Hardman
I
favor a defense-in-depth strategy which has active defenses against
active threats. For example, in places where vehicular crossings are a
major problem, vehicle barriers would be an appropriate response.
Parking a tank over the next hill and blowing up vehicles crossing the
border would be an inappropriate response. However, if a vehicle finds
its way blocked by a vehicle barrier and discharges personnel who
attempt to destroy the barrier, those people should be apprehended if
possible with deadly force authorized for responding personnel.
So, you favor harassing them before you shoot them?
Post by T Jr Hardman
Whatever defenses are set at the border, a variety of fallback
strategies should back up the border defenses. Pedestrian traffic should
be detected and tracked by a variety of sensors. Motorized traffic
should be monitored as well, especially in the very common cases where
we see pedestrian groups crossing the border and moving to pre-arranged
rendezvous with transport. A variety of responses can be used to track
the vehicle to the destination, as one of the major goals here is to
discover and decapitate the criminal organizations profiteering off of
trafficking in human cargo.
You are describing a border almost as leaky as our current one. FYI,
Hardman, when there is a will, a way will be found. The only viable
solution to illegal immigration is to remove the desire to come here
illegally. Band-Aids don't cure disease.
Post by T Jr Hardman
We need to engineer out some loopholes in current laws, which already
provide for very significant fines up to $100,000 for knowingly hiring
illegal aliens. Convictions are at present rather difficult to obtain
but we have ways to block up the current very popular loopholes.
Somebody wake me up when a Tyson Foods CEO goes to prison.
Post by T Jr Hardman
As the "jobs magnet" is turned down or turned off, less and less people
will come illegally to the US in search of unscrupulous employers
willing to hire them.
And that is one of the areas we ought to be spending our money and
effort on rather than trying to sweep back the tide physically with
ineffective fences and a militarized border. We need to not only dry up
the job opportunities in the US for illegal aliens, but to help their
parent countries develop economies that will create adequate jobs for
them at their home. We also need to make it more attractive for aliens
to come here legally than illegally. That means funding the bureaucracy
and establishing a means that will make it reasonable for people to
follow the rules.
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
Nobody seems to disagree with that one.
--
*******************
Michael R. McAfee
Mesa, AZ
*******************
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-08 20:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
You are describing a border almost as leaky as our current one. FYI,
Hardman, when there is a will, a way will be found. The only viable
solution to illegal immigration is to remove the desire to come here
illegally. Band-Aids don't cure disease.
Yeah - if we just poison our own nation, they'll stop coming here.

No - we don't need to make this a foul place to be.
We just need to make a legal way for them to come here.
Post by Michael R. McAfee
And that is one of the areas we ought to be spending our money and
effort on rather than trying to sweep back the tide physically with
ineffective fences and a militarized border. We need to not only dry up
the job opportunities in the US for illegal aliens, but to help their
As long as Americans like clean bathrooms, healthy food, and
working vehicles - there will *always* be low-level jobs for the
immigrants to do.

I wouldn't have it any other way.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 02:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
Michael R. McAfee
2007-01-07 08:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
That should be pretty cheap to do. After all, it is just police work and
a little bureaucratic paperwork. We already do a pretty good job of
that. It will cost some, however. I say take it out of the funds that we
would ordinarily spend in Iraq.
--
*******************
Michael R. McAfee
Mesa, AZ
*******************
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 10:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Sanders Kaufman
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
That should be pretty cheap to do. After all, it is just police work and
a little bureaucratic paperwork. We already do a pretty good job of
that. It will cost some, however. I say take it out of the funds that we
would ordinarily spend in Iraq.
Yeah - nobody who calls for more government is ever willing to
pony up the dough. They just say to cut spending somewhere else.
Yez
2007-01-07 11:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Sanders Kaufman
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
That should be pretty cheap to do. After all, it is just police
work and a little bureaucratic paperwork. We already do a
pretty good job of that. It will cost some, however. I say take
it out of the funds that we would ordinarily spend in Iraq.
Yeah - nobody who calls for more government is ever willing to
pony up the dough. They just say to cut spending somewhere
else.
Several of our govt agencies "lose" (yes lose as in can't account
for) millions of dollars every year, in the case of the pentagon it's
billions of dollars... how about we cut the budget of any government
agency by the exact amount they can't account for and put it back in
the kitty for other projects?

'rena
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 18:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yez
Several of our govt agencies "lose" (yes lose as in can't account
for) millions of dollars every year, in the case of the pentagon it's
billions of dollars... how about we cut the budget of any government
agency by the exact amount they can't account for and put it back in
the kitty for other projects?
So - we know the money's being spent.
We just aren't certain where.
And you would have us cut it without knowing where it goes.

A couple of weeks ago, on the ISS, a solar array cable snagged
up the deployment of a power array. An astronaut spacewalked
over to it and put his hand on the cable. Then, he waited for
about an hour while NASA scientists tried to make sure that this
was, indeed, the right cable and that he was indeed, pulling in
the right direction.

Cutting things, when you don't know what they do, is bad science
and bad politics.
Yez
2007-01-08 01:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Yez
Several of our govt agencies "lose" (yes lose as in can't
account for) millions of dollars every year, in the case of the
pentagon it's billions of dollars... how about we cut the
budget of any government agency by the exact amount they can't
account for and put it back in the kitty for other projects?
So - we know the money's being spent.
We just aren't certain where.
And you would have us cut it without knowing where it goes.
Huh? Well, yes, absolutely. That IS the problem.

[...]
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Cutting things, when you don't know what they do, is bad science
and bad politics.
There is NO excuse for not being able to account for millions of
dollars, period. I can't believe you think that the obscene
mismanagement of our taxpayer money can be excused.

'rena
Jafo
2007-01-07 20:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Sanders Kaufman
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
That should be pretty cheap to do. After all, it is just police work and
a little bureaucratic paperwork. We already do a pretty good job of
that. It will cost some, however. I say take it out of the funds that we
would ordinarily spend in Iraq.
Yeah - nobody who calls for more government is ever willing to
pony up the dough. They just say to cut spending somewhere else.
What will happen is that we'll do essentially nothing but talk the
subject to death until the next terrorist attack. After which, money
will no longer be anyone's concern.

--
Jafo
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 20:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jafo
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Yeah - nobody who calls for more government is ever willing to
pony up the dough. They just say to cut spending somewhere else.
What will happen is that we'll do essentially nothing but talk the
subject to death until the next terrorist attack. After which, money
will no longer be anyone's concern.
Militarizing the border would not have prevented the last one,
and it won't prevent the next one.

What you're doing here is trying to steal a little legitimacy
from the War against al Quaeda, and use to promote your own
little hate-based agenda.

Fuck that. Keep the focus on Osama and leave the
lettuce-pickers to pick their lettuce-picking.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 22:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jafo
Yeah - nobody who calls for more government is ever willing to pony
up the dough. They just say to cut spending somewhere else.
What will happen is that we'll do essentially nothing but talk the
subject to death until the next terrorist attack. After which, money
will no longer be anyone's concern.
Militarizing the border would not have prevented the last one, and it
won't prevent the next one.
A visa entry-exit tracking system definitely would have prevented it.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 22:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Militarizing the border would not have prevented the last one, and it
won't prevent the next one.
A visa entry-exit tracking system definitely would have prevented it.
No - most of them were on good Visa's.
You can't fight terrorism with this kind of Paper Tiger.

It's fine for *monitoring* traffic - for like taxes and
import/export reporting. But that's it.

It's like saying we needed to take out Sadddam in order to
combat terrorism. It's confusing two different issues.

There's only ONE tactic to prevent another 9/11 - eliminate The
Taliban and its al Quaeda network.

Does Visa tracking do that? No. It's a good thing to do - but
it's not part of the War against al Quaeda.

What's happening here is that border-bigots are trying to steal
a little legitimacy from the War Against al Quaeda, and use it
to support their own hate-based agenda.

We already let the NeoChristians do that once, and look what it
got us. More terrorism.

This isn't a War against Mexico, this isn't a War against Drugs
or against libruls. It's against al Quaeda.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 23:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
Militarizing the border would not have prevented the last one, and it
won't prevent the next one.
A visa entry-exit tracking system definitely would have prevented it.
No - most of them were on good Visa's.
Really? Is that why the old INS was broken up over their incompetence at
mailing out Student Visas to two of the hijackers six months to the day
after they murdered thousands?
Post by Sanders Kaufman
You can't fight terrorism with this kind of Paper Tiger.
That's like saying you can't prevent airline hijackings by increasing
security at the airports.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
It's fine for *monitoring* traffic - for like taxes and import/export
reporting. But that's it.
It's like saying we needed to take out Sadddam in order to combat
terrorism. It's confusing two different issues.
There's only ONE tactic to prevent another 9/11 - eliminate The Taliban
and its al Quaeda network.
Has it occured to you that the USA has enemies other than Al Qaeda?
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Does Visa tracking do that? No. It's a good thing to do - but it's not
part of the War against al Quaeda.
There are enemies other than Al Qaeda. There are other preventative
measures to use against both them, and Al Qaeda.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
What's happening here is that border-bigots are trying to steal a little
legitimacy from the War Against al Quaeda, and use it to support their
own hate-based agenda.
We already let the NeoChristians do that once, and look what it got us.
More terrorism.
This isn't a War against Mexico, this isn't a War against Drugs or
against libruls. It's against al Quaeda.
You're not just an idiot, but a narrow-minded one, apparently.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-08 04:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Really? Is that why the old INS was broken up over their incompetence at
mailing out Student Visas to two of the hijackers six months to the day
after they murdered thousands?
It's interesting how you start by saying they were here on bad
visas, and then go on to explain how the visas were *renewed*.

Will you ever make a post in which you do NOT contradict yourself?
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-08 10:54:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Really? Is that why the old INS was broken up over their incompetence
at mailing out Student Visas to two of the hijackers six months to the
day after they murdered thousands?
It's interesting how you start by saying they were here on bad visas,
and then go on to explain how the visas were *renewed*.
They were not _renewed_.
Will you ever make a post in which you do NOT contradict yourself?
How about _you_ Saunders?

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/12/inv.flight.school.visas/

<quote in-part>

[ ... ]

The forms asked that the men, who had entered the United States on
tourist visas, be allowed to change their visa status so they could take
a $27,300 professional pilot program that would last from September 1,
2000, until September 1 the next year.

The student visa requests were actually granted months later -- on July
17, 2001, for Atta, and August 9, 2001, for al-Shehhi -- but postmarks
indicate the letters of notification were only sent out to Huffman
Aviation last week. They were received Monday, the six-month milestone
of last year's terror attacks.

[ ... ]

</quote>

The visas were not renewed. They were changed as to type.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-08 11:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
It's interesting how you start by saying they were here on bad visas,
and then go on to explain how the visas were *renewed*.
The visas were not renewed. They were changed as to type.
Perhaps you forgot.
Your original argument was that they didn't have visas.
Way to take both sides of the issue!
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-08 12:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
It's interesting how you start by saying they were here on bad visas,
and then go on to explain how the visas were *renewed*.
The visas were not renewed. They were changed as to type.
Perhaps you forgot.
Your original argument was that they didn't have visas.
Way to take both sides of the issue!
Bullshit. The original argument was that with decent visa tracking as to
both entry and exit -- not to mention actual enforcement of "depart by"
dates -- 9/11 wouldn't have happened the way it did, which is to say,
"with ease".
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-08 12:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Bullshit. The original argument was that with decent visa tracking as to
both entry and exit -- not to mention actual enforcement of "depart by"
dates -- 9/11 wouldn't have happened the way it did, which is to say,
"with ease".
Yeah - it's real easy to find a few dozen guys, train them to
become suicide bombers, travel across the globe, manage a
complex financial network, learn to pilot jetliners, and
coordinate simultaneous attacks on each of the Pentagon, White
House and Wall Street. Happens all the time.

But a paper dragon like more visa beurocracy - that's all that
stands between us and libertyfreedomdemocracy.

Either that - or you're just trying to steal a little legitimacy
from the War against al Quaeda, to support your desired War
against Mexico.

Fuck that.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-08 13:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Bullshit. The original argument was that with decent visa tracking as
to both entry and exit -- not to mention actual enforcement of "depart
by" dates -- 9/11 wouldn't have happened the way it did, which is to
say, "with ease".
Yeah - it's real easy to find a few dozen guys, train them to become
suicide bombers, travel across the globe, manage a complex financial
network, learn to pilot jetliners, and coordinate simultaneous attacks
on each of the Pentagon, White House and Wall Street. Happens all the
time.
But a paper dragon like more visa beurocracy - that's all that stands
between us and libertyfreedomdemocracy.
Either that - or you're just trying to steal a little legitimacy from
the War against al Quaeda, to support your desired War against Mexico.
Fuck that.
Maybe you're failing to understand something.

I don't want a war with Mexico.

I'd like to prevent one.

I'd also like to prevent the Second Civil War but people like you seem
dead set on making sure all of the preconditions are extant.

BTW -- the hijackers didn't have to be found. They volunteered,
travelling around the world to find someone for whom to volunteer. Most
of them didn't need training except in flight. Most of them were college
grads. Many already had experienced in "militant undergrounds". And
coordinating simultaneous attacks mostly required, in their cases,
synchronizing watches and boarding jetliners with boxcutter knives in
their pockets.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-08 19:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Maybe you're failing to understand something.
I don't want a war with Mexico.
I'd like to prevent one.
Yeah - that's what Hitler said to defend his wars, too.
Post by T Jr Hardman
I'd also like to prevent the Second Civil War but people like you seem
dead set on making sure all of the preconditions are extant.
Yeah - you border-bigots are all about peace.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-08 19:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
BTW -- the hijackers didn't have to be found. They volunteered,
travelling around the world to find someone for whom to volunteer. Most
of them didn't need training except in flight. Most of them were college
grads. Many already had experienced in "militant undergrounds". And
coordinating simultaneous attacks mostly required, in their cases,
synchronizing watches and boarding jetliners with boxcutter knives in
their pockets.
And none of them were Mexicans.
paul
2007-01-08 20:24:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
BTW -- the hijackers didn't have to be found. They volunteered,
travelling around the world to find someone for whom to volunteer. Most
of them didn't need training except in flight. Most of them were college
grads. Many already had experienced in "militant undergrounds". And
coordinating simultaneous attacks mostly required, in their cases,
synchronizing watches and boarding jetliners with boxcutter knives in
their pockets.
And none of them were Mexicans.
you show your ignorance. a very large minority of those crossing the border
with mexico are NOT mexicans, including a very large and growing number of
middle-easterners. there are plenty of reliable reports about al-queda
training/organizational camps in mexico and venezuela. i know that you are a
terminal lefty, but that position doesn't require that you be terminally
stupid.

paul
Jafo
2007-01-08 20:47:06 UTC
Permalink
i know that you are a terminal lefty, but that position doesn't
require that you be terminally stupid.
Are you sure? :)

--
Jafo
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-08 21:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
BTW -- the hijackers didn't have to be found. They volunteered,
travelling around the world to find someone for whom to volunteer. Most
of them didn't need training except in flight. Most of them were college
grads. Many already had experienced in "militant undergrounds". And
coordinating simultaneous attacks mostly required, in their cases,
synchronizing watches and boarding jetliners with boxcutter knives in
their pockets.
And none of them were Mexicans.
you show your ignorance. a very large minority of those crossing the border
with mexico are NOT mexicans, including a very large and growing number of
middle-easterners. there are plenty of reliable reports about al-queda
training/organizational camps in mexico and venezuela. i know that you are a
terminal lefty, but that position doesn't require that you be terminally
stupid.
Ah, no, for that he needed meningitis.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 16:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
No need. Foist the cost of implimentation onto the airlines.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 18:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
No need. Foist the cost of implimentation onto the airlines.
Airlines should fund immigrant tracking?
I wonder what kind of beurocracy we'd need to manage THAT bad idea.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 18:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
No need. Foist the cost of implimentation onto the airlines.
Airlines should fund immigrant tracking?
I wonder what kind of beurocracy we'd need to manage THAT bad idea.
Saunders, you imbecile, they're already in business to track their
passengers. They already have the technology in place, and they already
collect the data, and they're far more efficient than government is ever
likely to be. Indeed, to some degree they already do this; the recently
derailed US-VISIT program mostly was intended to just collect their data
and look for any two instances of the same identity, and compare entry
and exit dates.

_That_ processing can be done on any Linux/UNIX box that has "Harvest"
installed. Hell, the average web-page stats generator could be tweaked
to do that. you could do the entire job with a stack of Mac OSX Powerbooks.

Once again, there you go demonstrating that your brains are about two
clams short of a clam halfbake.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 18:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Airlines should fund immigrant tracking?
I wonder what kind of beurocracy we'd need to manage THAT bad idea.
Saunders, you imbecile, they're already in business to track their
passengers. They already have the technology in place, and they already
Outsourcing National Security solves no problems.
Post by T Jr Hardman
collect the data, and they're far more efficient than government is ever
likely to be. Indeed, to some degree they already do this; the recently
derailed US-VISIT program mostly was intended to just collect their data
and look for any two instances of the same identity, and compare entry
and exit dates.
_That_ processing can be done on any Linux/UNIX box that has "Harvest"
installed. Hell, the average web-page stats generator could be tweaked
to do that. you could do the entire job with a stack of Mac OSX Powerbooks.
Once again, there you go demonstrating that your brains are about two
clams short of a clam halfbake.
T Jr Hardman
2007-01-07 22:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Airlines should fund immigrant tracking?
I wonder what kind of beurocracy we'd need to manage THAT bad idea.
Saunders, you imbecile, they're already in business to track their
passengers. They already have the technology in place, and they already
Outsourcing National Security solves no problems.
There you have it, folks. Dementia, clear as day.
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by T Jr Hardman
collect the data, and they're far more efficient than government is
ever likely to be. Indeed, to some degree they already do this; the
recently derailed US-VISIT program mostly was intended to just collect
their data and look for any two instances of the same identity, and
compare entry and exit dates.
_That_ processing can be done on any Linux/UNIX box that has "Harvest"
installed. Hell, the average web-page stats generator could be tweaked
to do that. you could do the entire job with a stack of Mac OSX Powerbooks.
Once again, there you go demonstrating that your brains are about two
clams short of a clam halfbake.
--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-07 18:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
How much in additional taxes are you willing to spend to fund it?
No need. Foist the cost of implimentation onto the airlines.
Airlines should fund immigrant tracking?
I wonder what kind of beurocracy we'd need to manage THAT bad idea.
paul
2007-01-07 02:53:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by paul
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you
don't have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time
doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
It's common for you border-bigots to blame your own problems on other
people.
If, as you say, I am able to bring out your temper, you should learn
some way of giving other people less control over you. Because the
way you're going - that's just not healthy.
you are right. this discussion (for my part anyway) is over. bye.
Or you stay and slay the dragon...
The latter is messier and many of the unworthy attention hogs move in
to feed on the kill.
You see, I hope, all they seek is discord and hate.
you choose to feed that need. i choose to deny them that need. racists
don't count. their opinions don't count. they are zero's in society and
i don't feel that i have to give them any respect. other than that, i
hope to reduce (somewhat) that 'need'
But what do you think about increasing security at all of our borders
until we gain total operational control of them,
That's impossible. Just ask the East Germans, and they were trying to keep
people IN!
Tell me, Hardman. A question that paul is reluctant to answer (for good
paul is not reluctant to answer these questions. most have been asked and
answered before, and i will again today.
reason). Do you propose that we shoot to kill on sight those that we
suspect are crossing our borders illegally? I suspect that you favor a
only those who present a physical threat when being aprehended. always then.
(multi billion dollar - perhaps even trillions of dollars) fence along at
least our border with Mexico. Do you also think that that fence ought
yeah, i do, but of course it will cost a mere fraction of the overpriced
expectations of the open border crowd.
to be constructed with guard towers equipped with machine-guns and army
personnel with orders to shoot first and sort the bodies later? How
not neccesary. the fence would only be one small part of the barrier. also
included would be electronic systems to sense border crossers even before
they crossed, and would be very affordable.
about mines (you know, those devises that children in Afghanistan are so
fond of playing with). Think the border ought to be mined?. How about
now you are just participating in fear mongering. no answer to this question
is necesarry.
the CEOs of the corporations that hire illegal aliens? Do you think that
we ought to fine them ... oh, I don't know... maybe $50.00 per alien that
they employ illegally? Thought so.
no, i would support a very hefty fine. Hardaman suggested 100,000 dollars.
this would be appropriate only for small businesses, and only on a first
offense. large firms i would fine at a MUCH higher rate. multiple offenses
would draw serious jail time.
Post by T Jr Hardman
and finish implementing systems to allow us to track visa-overstaying?
Now that we should and can do.
absolutely.
--
*******************
Michael R. McAfee
Mesa, AZ
*******************
samovar
2007-01-06 06:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by paul
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you are
an arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
go to hell! saying it over and over won't make it so, no matter how much you
wish to cover your own inadequacies.
Paul, you're melting down as surely, if not as loudly, as my "sam"
persona does in the face of illogic, pure evil, and inbred recessive
genetics.

It's vexing to be sure!

Capisce yet?
paul
2007-01-06 18:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by paul
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you
are an arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
you are right. if i have a weakness, it is my desire to educate the
hopelessly ignorant. and yeah, you and sam do seem to bring out my temper.
You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
go to hell! saying it over and over won't make it so, no matter how much
you wish to cover your own inadequacies.
Paul, you're melting down as surely, if not as loudly, as my "sam"
persona does in the face of illogic, pure evil, and inbred recessive
genetics.
It's vexing to be sure!
Capisce yet?
racist bullshit does tend to melt me down a bit. i recover quickly though.
people with alternate ideas on how to make America better do NOT melt me
down. i consider what they say, and weigh it against what i know and believe
to be true. sometimes i revise my beliefs, and when i do, i become stronger
for it, and my arguments become more convincing.

take care,
paul
samovar
2007-01-06 06:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you
are an arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
Now see bucky play the left's predictable game of divide and conquer.

It's Crayola level stuff paul, really.
paul
2007-01-06 19:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by samovar
Post by paul
YOU can go to hell, sam! you are little better than sanders here. you
are an arrogant asshole, and i have no time for either of you!
It's always wild to see you throw a temper tantrum about how you don't
have time to do this thing you keep choosing to spend time doing.
You anti-Mexican types just aren't right in the head.
Now see bucky play the left's predictable game of divide and conquer.
It's Crayola level stuff paul, really.
sanders is truly an asshole, but i suspect that even he might be a decent
guy if we met him in a non-political setting. i have occasionally seen a bit
of humanity peek through, even with him. i raised 5 childeren, and have
helped to raise a dozen (or so) grandchildren so far. i can deal with
crayola level stuff pretty well.

yes, he tried the divide and conquer techniqe, but it didn't work. i still
believe what i have always believed (that racism in ANY form is wrong) and
frankly, i feel that i won this round. maybe sanders will see this and avoid
his 'paternalistic' form of racism in the future, and if he does, then i
have accomplished a good thing. if not, i have only wasted my time, not lost
anything significant.

take care,
paul
samovar
2007-01-06 06:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by paul
Post by matador
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism
sucks, whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own
paternal racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans or
columbians or new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our open
border to bring
blah, blah, blah.
When will you bigots come up with something new to say?
lol, you don't like what is said, so you belittle it and move on as if it
was never said. i don't know why i bothered to talk to you as if you were
a real thinking feeling human being!
bye!
You're back on track.
YOU can go to hell, sam!
Oh really????
Post by paul
you are little better than sanders here.
Do tell, my "racism" being______________?

Sorry paul, your scripted outrage serves only to diminish you.

Where's all that lovey-dovey Christian tolerance now, eh?

Wee bit of hypocrisy shining through?
Post by paul
you are an arrogant asshole,
Indeed I am at times, and I do not deny it.

However consider the comparison...am I flagrant bigoted POS like bucky?

No.

Do I wish my country ill like bucky?

No.

Do I always look to blame America first like bucky?

Never.


Your comparison fails on the cutting blade of raw emotion.

What I have shown you is the cesspool of organisms you've chosen to
associate with and to try and save. Noble goal, but ignoble DNA you're
trying to rewire.

You will fail in trying to love these vermin to sentience, fail 100%. No
amount of coaching, cajoling, bar cannoodling, friendship pledges, nor
pure Christ-like compassion will ever reform the true haters. And rest
assured that save for yourself and Jandro this is sick-land_Az.

When, or if, you can arrive at that realization your animus at me for
dragging you there through a series of admittedly tortuously acted, yet
purely necessary morality plays will in time abate.

In the fire suppression game one oft times sets back or front fires to
drain the blaze its fuel. What you don't wish to admit is that in my
post election month absence the burning HELL within the left was unable
to lay down, smolder out, let it go and move on with a positive message.

And in your heart you know why, we both do.

They live and feed on anger, fear, and intimidation. Left alone for a
time by the opposition the record shows their hatred blazed unabated
like the wildfire of Hell we must admit it to be.

No return to civility ensued.

No points and issues oriented platform emerged, the pure payback
mentality raged on and was all too easily drawn to my return with the
predictable new nutters emerging like Canoza, motocross, etc.

No long time regulars to this group, these partisan hater seethed forth
like rolling brimstone toward the all too identifiable conservative red
flag; were you perplexed?

Did you fail to do the analysis?

If so I apologize for inflaming your passion as easily as I set theirs
off. It's a "talent" I find tricky to modulate at times.

The results, when you become rational again, are easily graded.

And my purpose, as stated numerous times, remains to hold a mirror to
the truly dysfunctional left, no matter how ugly the reflection becomes.

And I submit I can mirror with accuracy that surely must, in the minds
of some, damn me as well.

You may maintain that animus if you please, it neither alters my
beliefs, nor will I rise to fight you to suit THEIR sick need to set
conservative against conservative.

The pattern is exposed, chronicled, and laid bare. That it repeats
itself, even to your battling bucky, the least worthy vermin of all
(save for siva and eggs) is something you really need to get reflective on.

What you will find, in meditation, is that you despise them as much as
I, and no amount of Christian good will can save you from your all too
human revulsion in the face of pure unadulterated evil.

That you would seek to lash back at me for dragging you to this
precipice is understandable but also unnecessary. If there were no truth
to my observations your reaction would be ambivalence.

It isn't - and I did not misstate my appraisals of this medium, its
principals, nor its repetitive cycles.

Play on if you choose, but understand why you do.

Shalom.
Post by paul
and i have no time for either of you!
Reading the post count, again you fib.
paul
2007-01-06 19:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by samovar
Post by paul
Post by matador
Post by paul
Post by Sanders Kaufman
Post by paul
while your fear is only of blacks... well, black women anyway? racism
sucks, whether its overt over the top bullshit like this or your own
paternal racism bullshit. i have no fear of mexicans. or guatamalans
or columbians or new zealanders. my fear is that someone will use our
open border to bring
blah, blah, blah.
When will you bigots come up with something new to say?
lol, you don't like what is said, so you belittle it and move on as if
it was never said. i don't know why i bothered to talk to you as if you
were a real thinking feeling human being!
bye!
You're back on track.
YOU can go to hell, sam!
Oh really????
Post by paul
you are little better than sanders here.
Do tell, my "racism" being______________?
i believe that you are truly not a racist, in any way shape or form.
Post by samovar
Sorry paul, your scripted outrage serves only to diminish you.
i didn't script it. it just kinda happened.
Post by samovar
Where's all that lovey-dovey Christian tolerance now, eh?
even Jesus cleared the temple of money changers.
Post by samovar
Wee bit of hypocrisy shining through?
perhaps. if so, i apologize.
Post by samovar
Post by paul
you are an arrogant asshole,
Indeed I am at times, and I do not deny it.
and that is particularly what pissed me off about sanders. he has actually
been a bit more careful about expressing racist ideas since he was called on
that issue. his arogance and his asinine attitude continued, as has yours.
Post by samovar
However consider the comparison...am I flagrant bigoted POS like bucky?
bucky isn't flagrant about his bigotry lately. i would like to think that
maybe i contributed to this positive situation.
Post by samovar
No.
no, you are right sam. i don't recall anything that you posted that
qualifies as bigotry or racism. it is part of why i like you in spite of
your... shall we say 'out front' attitude with those who disagree with you.
Post by samovar
Do I wish my country ill like bucky?
No.
sanders has definitely flirted with this unforgivable idea. it is part of
why i have a serious problem with him.
Post by samovar
Do I always look to blame America first like bucky?
Never.
...uh, well, you do blame Americans who have differing views from your own
for problems that they only seek to solve.
Post by samovar
Your comparison fails on the cutting blade of raw emotion.
What I have shown you is the cesspool of organisms you've chosen to
associate with and to try and save. Noble goal, but ignoble DNA you're
trying to rewire.
you can not just write off everyone who merely disagrees with you. it is not
logical.
Post by samovar
You will fail in trying to love these vermin to sentience, fail 100%. No
amount of coaching, cajoling, bar cannoodling, friendship pledges, nor
pure Christ-like compassion will ever reform the true haters. And rest
assured that save for yourself and Jandro this is sick-land_Az.
if true, then you and i are BOTH wasting our time here. as far as i'm
concerned, that would be okay too. not my FIRST choice, but i do enjoy
posting here and talking to people of widely varying opinions.
Post by samovar
When, or if, you can arrive at that realization your animus at me for
dragging you there through a series of admittedly tortuously acted, yet
purely necessary morality plays will in time abate.
whenever my morals degenerate, i try to get a grip, and get back on the
right path. remember, WWRD what would Reagan do? he invariably reached out
to his opponents, and refused to make enemies out of those who disagreed
with him, including those who had declared him to be the anti-christ. he won
a significant number of them over, too.
Post by samovar
In the fire suppression game one oft times sets back or front fires to
drain the blaze its fuel. What you don't wish to admit is that in my post
election month absence the burning HELL within the left was unable to lay
down, smolder out, let it go and move on with a positive message.
positive messages have been lacking in our countries political discussions
since the extreme left declared Ron Reagan to be the anti-christ. i merely
seek to change the direction of that freight train.
Post by samovar
And in your heart you know why, we both do.
because we believe that our ideas will better America?
Post by samovar
They live and feed on anger, fear, and intimidation. Left alone for a time
by the opposition the record shows their hatred blazed unabated like the
wildfire of Hell we must admit it to be.
No return to civility ensued.
rome was not built in a month ;- )
Post by samovar
No points and issues oriented platform emerged, the pure payback mentality
raged on and was all too easily drawn to my return with the predictable
new nutters emerging like Canoza, motocross, etc.
No long time regulars to this group, these partisan hater seethed forth
like rolling brimstone toward the all too identifiable conservative red
flag; were you perplexed?
Did you fail to do the analysis?
If so I apologize for inflaming your passion as easily as I set theirs
off. It's a "talent" I find tricky to modulate at times.
The results, when you become rational again, are easily graded.
And my purpose, as stated numerous times, remains to hold a mirror to the
truly dysfunctional left, no matter how ugly the reflection becomes.
you do occasionally remind me of the extremely rabid lefties, with your
vitriol and hate.
Post by samovar
And I submit I can mirror with accuracy that surely must, in the minds of
some, damn me as well.
i could. i pray that this is not so, but i don't get to make that decision.
Post by samovar
You may maintain that animus if you please, it neither alters my beliefs,
nor will I rise to fight you to suit THEIR sick need to set conservative
against conservative.
good for you. i will continue to express my honest opinions.
Post by samovar
The pattern is exposed, chronicled, and laid bare. That it repeats itself,
even to your battling bucky, the least worthy vermin of all (save for siva
and eggs) is something you really need to get reflective on.
What you will find, in meditation, is that you despise them as much as I,
and no amount of Christian good will can save you from your all too human
revulsion in the face of pure unadulterated evil.
i do despise what siva and sanders proffess to believe. it is over the edge,
and truly harmful to America and everything good that it stands for.
Post by samovar
That you would seek to lash back at me for dragging you to this precipice
is understandable but also unnecessary. If there were no truth to my
observations your reaction would be ambivalence.
you caught me at a bad time. i was bashing racists (who claimed to be
righties) when sanders jumped in acting the ass. i bashed him for acting the
ass, and you jumped in, claiming i was finally back on the right track. i am
on my OWN track, irregardless of where others may roam with their beliefs.
the way to change my direction is not to falsely accuse me of racism, or to
pat me on the back for finally being back on the right track. convince me
with cogent arguments.

like i said, you caught me at a bad time.
Post by samovar
It isn't - and I did not misstate my appraisals of this medium, its
principals, nor its repetitive cycles.
Play on if you choose, but understand why you do.
i truly do understand why i do what i do.
Post by samovar
Shalom.
shalom
Post by samovar
Post by paul
and i have no time for either of you!
Reading the post count, again you fib.
i apologize for going to far. it is not my intention to make an enemy of
you. i think you are probably a good guy who has been pushed by lefties to
the point where you have little tolerance. my hope is to reach past that
point, and i didn't do a very good job with you that day.

take care,
paul
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-03 16:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringogirl
I really have to laugh at you Rudy-
You're not laughing, gringaslut. You're furious. I've shined the harsh
light of reality on you. You're an unaccomplished, badly educated,
down-market skank who is bitter and resentful at Latinos who are your
betters in every sense: harder working, more accepting of personal
responsibility, and much more.
You're a bigot, gringaslut. You hate Latinos. Their immigration status
means nothing to you. You hate all of them, legally immigrated or not.
And it's largely because they repeatedly show you to be a zero.
Right on every count.
Dude
2007-01-03 06:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringogirl
I really have to laugh at you Rudy- do you think that using such ugly
words against me will hurt me? because when people see what you write
they develop a bad opinion of latino males and those who are for open
borders.
your words bounce off of me and hit you right in the face
Latino, shit, they are mostly Indian and something else.
Dude
2007-01-03 06:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
"Latino Hispanic"??
Why can't you just say "Mexican"?
Why are you guys so cowardly
in saying it?
Talk about P.C. !
She didn't want to say - fucking Mexican mojado.
Sanders Kaufman
2007-01-03 16:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Why can't you just say "Mexican"?
Why are you guys so cowardly
in saying it?
Talk about P.C. !
When she allows herself to speak casually, she tends to lose
her posting privileges.

She has to discipline herself to use these academic terms - even
though she clearly doesn't understand what they mean, or how to
use them.
Dude
2007-01-04 00:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Why can't you just say "Mexican"?
Why are you guys so cowardly
in saying it?
Talk about P.C. !
When she allows herself to speak casually, she tends to lose her
posting privileges.
She has to discipline herself to use these academic terms - even though
she clearly doesn't understand what they mean, or how to use them.
Mr. Gibberish is criticizing a poster? You write like a child.
paul
2007-01-04 04:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dude
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Why can't you just say "Mexican"?
Why are you guys so cowardly
in saying it?
Talk about P.C. !
When she allows herself to speak casually, she tends to lose her posting
privileges.
She has to discipline herself to use these academic terms - even though
she clearly doesn't understand what they mean, or how to use them.
Mr. Gibberish is criticizing a poster? You write like a child.
and you write like a low life asshole. both of you are racist pieces of
shit. its is good that you and sanders are getting to know each other so
well. you deserve each other!
gringogirl
2007-01-03 05:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by gringogirl
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 Posted: 06:17 PM
Police Searching for Hit and Run Driver
Supported by
Neighbors say victim and driver were arguing
MCALLEN - Officers say a driver purposely ran over a McAllen man.
They're now searching for the driver.
It happened in the 2900 block of Daytona Avenue. Neighbors tell us the
driver and victim got into a shouting match.
Detectives say the driver floored the gas pedal and hit the man.
Markings on the street show exactly where the victim was hit.
Police say the man is still in the hospital. They're now searching for
the car involved in the accident. It's described as a maroon Mazda. It
has a rear spoiler with extensive damage to the driver's side.
Witnesses say the driver was a Hispanic man in his early twenties with
a military-style haircut.
Police ask anyone with information about the hit and run to call
McAllen Crimestoppers at 687-TIPS.
www.predatoryaliens.com
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